SPECIAL GUEST: MARSHALL TERRILL! (PART 1 OF 2)

A great friend and my Special Guest

Author Marshall Terrill

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Manning: Why the new book? And why now?

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Terrill: Well, the new book came by accident. I wasn't looking to do a Tribute Book. But what happened was when I was writing the Barbara McQueen book ("Steve McQueen: The Last Mile") I thought it might be nice to have a couple of guest passages. Enlist some people from the time period that Barbie and Steve knew to kind of chime-in. It worked great and I talked to a couple of people like Lee Majors and Karen Wilson, the young lady that Steve and Barbara had adopted (during filming of "The Hunter").

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Manning: Yes...

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Terrill: ...and a couple of other people. But in putting the book together, I realized that it took away from the flow of Barbara's story. So, I said 'For some reason, this isn't working'. Because Barbara is trying to tell a story and all of a sudden, these people interject their story and it takes away from the flow of what Barbara is trying to tell. So I thought, maybe what we could do is get a collection of people who knew Steve and have them write guest passages from a point of view that's chronological from the time that he was born to his death. I kept in contact from (my book) "Portrait of an American Rebel". And as a result of doing these (television, radio and photo exhibition) shows with Barbara and going to Slater (Missouri) people started coming up to us at these shows and saying, "Hey, I knew Steve and I have these pictures that no one has ever seen before". It really started coming together then. I remember Keith Richards saying that he used to write the best songs on the road. Well, this is one of those books that came together on the road. And every show! For example, this recent Chandler, Arizona show I have ten new passages from that! And we're doing a November release to commemorate the death of McQueen (Steve died on November 7, 1980 of a blood clot following cancer surgery) and that will also spill over into March which will be his 80th birthday.

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Manning: Yes, hard to believe. What can people expect from the new book? And I'm assuming that people are familiar with your book ("Steve McQueen: Portrait of An American Rebel") when it first was released in December of 1993. Will there be new material?

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Terrill: Oh, absolutely! There will be untold stories and unseen pictures. When I was putting together this Tribute Book, I had an idea of a photo book, and again, this came together about three or four years ago. So, this is before the glut of photo books came out. It was one of those cases where anyone can put a photo book together. But what's going to keep people going back to that book and pulling it off the shelf are the stories. So, a lot of stories are significant. Some are insignificant. But they're all dealing with McQueen. For example, there's a great story about a lady by the name of Joann Chapman. She said that when Steve lived in Brentwood (California) he had a Ferrari that used to come roaring out of the (Benedict) Canyon. And they'd meet at the stoplight right in front of the Beverly Hills Hotel.

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Manning: I know that stop light!

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Terrill: And she had a Jaguar. They would meet at this stop light and they would gun their engines and they'd drag race! She said he won every single time. I asked her "Didn't you ever win?" She said, "You know what? Actually I did win. Whenever he won, he would do a little wave in the rear view mirror. I won one time and I looked in the rear view mirror and did my little wave". And she said he had a smile on his face. It wasn't the fact that she lost, but he let her win.

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Manning: (laughing) Ah, so that's what it was!

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Terrill: You know, it's a great story. The fact that these two--they never spoke a word with each other but they both had hot automobiles and they'd both drag race on Sunset (Boulevard).

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Manning: What makes Steve McQueen relevant in 2009?

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Terrill: The one word I can think of is 'authenticity'. We are lacking true original heroes today. People felt a special connection to McQueen, he wasn't just a movie star. Today's movie stars--you have George Clooney who makes smart movies, makes good movies but you don't feel a connection to him. With McQueen, he reached you through that screen and that's a true gift. He was an original in his life. There are several factors. We all know the kind of background he came from, so we care about him as a person because we know the torment he went through as child and teenager. He also didn't necessarily play the Hollywood game which is what we liked about him too. The fact that he had his own life. He had (motorcycle and auto) racing. He had his own family. He made a life outside of Hollywood. And we can all connect to that. With John Lennon, when he put out an album we could kind of tell where he was in his life. With Steve McQueen, his films intersected his personal life and you could look at each film and you could tell exactly where McQueen was in his life at that time. They had a strange way of echoing his life. I think that's why we probably all have that special connection to him because he was a guy you wanted to care about. There's not too many movie actors you can say that about today.

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Manning: How do you explain the loss that so many people still feel today as if we've just recently lost Steve last Wednesday? And the second part of my question is that young people today are constantly discovering him, whether it's through film acting class or the standpoint of admiring "The King of Cool". But going back to my first question. Why do you think so many of us--myself included--still feel this tremendous void. It's been almost 30 years?

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Terrill: I was watching "Junior Bonner" last night because of our trip last week (several of us traveled to Prescott. Arizona where the 1972 McQueen movie was filmed) and I was looking at it from a point of view to revisit the locations we just saw. But I couldn't help myself and started examining McQueen's acting. It's so fresh and he touches you emotionally. For example the one thing that stood out for me was the reaction he gave when his mother (Ida Lupino) told him that Robert Preston (as father, Ace Bonner) sold his land to the son, Curly Bonner for $15,000--you see McQueen's reaction; you see it boiling up inside of him and fifteen minutes later on in the film you know why he punches out Joe Don Baker. That's the reason. But he didn't have to say anything! You knew through his reaction why he was upset. My God, what a gift! People can instinctively read it on his face and what he's trying to convey. And to do that so well...to so many people.

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Manning: Yeah! It's the old saying that it's nothing they put in the (movie theater) seats that make you respond, it's what goes through your eyes and brain and to your heart.

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Terrill: And that's the thing. You see Steve McQueen's heart through his acting and there's the real connection.

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Manning: Do you feel as I do that younger people--and I often reference on my Blog on my full website--that 20-somethings are just now discovering who Steve is and whether it's from the Tag Heuer (wrist watch) ads, or the spate of television commercials that have come out in just the past few years where they've used film clips from Bullitt where Steve will appear on screen. I like to think that 20-something's are identifying or otherwise tapping into that emotional tenor. Do you feel that?

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Terrill: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely! The majority of people under 40 don't know who he is. But, when we do these shows or these exhibitions or we go to Slater, you see the kids who are connected to McQueen. It's mostly the young men who have an interest in cars. They find out about McQueen that way. Women connect with McQueen on a whole different level. The guys think he's cool, but the women are drawn to something else: first and foremost, they think he's the sexiest man to ever walk the earth. There's McQueen and the rest of the male species is a distant second (laughs). I've learned to accept my place in line (laughs) because my wife, even though she was never a McQueen fan, thinks he is sexy as hell. But my point is that women connect with McQueen on a much deeper level than men do. They understand his foibles and flaws because they know deep down the man was hurt as a child and they want to nurture him. I'm sure someday this would make for a great college term paper! Most of the younger fans are introduced to McQueen by their parents. They're inexplicably drawn to him and when they learn of his personal story, they're hooked. Very much the same way the Beatles keep hooking new generations of listeners – the parents introduce them and it's off to the races. When I was growing up, Elvis and Steve McQueen were my dad's guys. He might not be your generation's idol, but that rubs off on you. And then as you get older and you kind of look back, you say "Wow! That guy was something else". Elvis to me was this entertainer, almost caricature if you will, stuck in the 1950's. But as I got older and learned more about him, I learned that he had this movie career in the 60's and he went back to Vegas in the 70's and so he had a second and third career. And then I end up doing three books about him! It's the same with McQueen. McQueen and The Beatles I always kind of connected to.

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Manning: You did?

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Terrill: Oh, yeah. They both kind of came of age at the same time, right?

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Manning: Right.

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Terrill: Their time in the spotlight was the same time frame. They both ascended from nothing to the top in a very short time. The Beatles broke out in January '64; McQueen broke in August of 63' (in "The Great Escape"). The Beatles broke up in 69'. That was McQueen's peak.

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Manning: He stopped giving interviews that year.

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Terrill: Right, that's right--that;s a great point.

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Manning: From the time you revised "Portrait of An American Rebel" to now, what surprised you most from all of your research about McQueen that maybe you didn't have at your grasp when you first published the book in 1993? Was there anything that surprised you, that really stood out the most?

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Terrill: Well, I think you've got to realize that when I wrote "Portrait of An American Rebel" I was 26. And so I'm observing McQueen from a 45-year-old perspective. When I was 26, I was looking at the obvious. What attracted me to McQueen at the time was the fact that he wasn't always so nice, that he could be a bastard. I had a tendency to follow the legend. But as I get older and the more I talk to people, I realize the fact that he really was a truly wonderful guy. He was a nice guy, he made people feel warm and comfortable. He did a lot of good things. I think that his circumstances dictated really what kind of person he was, but as he got older and matured and mellowed, people said that he was the most tender guy you'd ever meet. As I get older, I look at that McQueen more than the guy who made this ruthless climb to the top. My perspective of him really softened quite a bit, even though my perspective of him in the beginning was very heroic. Now, I see him more as a human being who scaled these incredible heights and had to deal with that as a human being as he got older. For a guy with a 9th grade education, I think he dealt with people and his situation very wisely. For example, when he was in Hollywood--in Hollywood yes means no; no means yes. That would drive me crazy.

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Manning: Oh, me too!

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Terrill: McQueen surrounded himself with a group of people, who were a core group of friends whom he could trust to tell him the truth. And if you think about it, that was such a smart thing to do. It really is. If you want to keep your edge, if you want to keep your perspective of reality, you do that. And that's what McQueen did. Not a lot of people in Hollywood do that or have done that. They have these entourages that leech off the superstars and they stop becoming human beings. McQueen made a very conscious effort to stay grounded, which is something you have to respect.

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Manning: You're talking about the stuntmen who surrounded McQueen...

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Terrill:...well, guys like Pat Johnson (Steve's karate instructor) Loren Janes and Bud Ekins (stunt doubles)...guys who would call him on his shit if his ego got too big or out of whack. And that's what you need in life. Because in Hollywood, they're all there to make a buck off of you.

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Manning: There was no ulterior motive with these guys. They were there for Steve.

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Terrill: Right.

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Manning: They weren't there to get something from him or to get material gain. Our trip to Santa Paula (California) was a once in a lifetime gift because...and I think most of us who were on that trip (December 6 & 7, 2008) agree that it was the people that we met through you, like Pat Johnson and others that were able to fill-in certain areas of Steve that we didn't know about. What did that trip mean to you? Was there anything unexpected?

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Terrill: A couple of things. The first was that I never got why the world's highest paid movie star would live in an airplane hangar with his motorcycles. And as you know, I spent a weekend in Mike Dewey's hangar with his airplane and his bikes and all his possessions were in this 3,000 square foot hangar. And I finally got it. Because McQueen had every thing he loved all right within his reach.

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Manning: Antique toys, right?

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Terrill: Everything. And so, I finally understood that. I never understood why he wouldn't want to choose to live in a house. The other thing was something that a guy named Wendell Dowling, who was an artist who knew Steve--this is Sammy Mason's (Steve's flight instructor) son-in-law--what he said to me was pretty profound. He said Steve, pretty much in the 1970's gave up his motorcycle life. And when he took up flying, he had that camaraderie again with the planes and the pilots. That made complete sense to me. So, that was the second thing that really stood out on that trip. Going to Santa Paula on the trip helped me place that important piece in the jigsaw puzzle of his life.

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Marshall and I Conclude Our Visit Tomorrow!